Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

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Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by John_Doe » 14 Sep 2018, 16:43

Dear All

A question relating to the benefits in the P category, maybe someone can share insight: When I get first recruited into a P-3 category position, is my professional experience exceeding the minimum 5 years taken into account?

Let's say I have 7 years of experience, would that mean I could be recruited salary-wise in P-3 and then graded Step 2 or 3 --- or does one always start in Step 1 of P2/P3/P4 regardless the experience?

I could not find the rules on that online, so any advice is much appreciated.

Thank you very much!

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by Sebastian » 14 Sep 2018, 18:53

John_Doe wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 16:43
A question relating to the benefits in the P category, maybe someone can share insight: When I get first recruited into a P-3 category position, is my professional experience exceeding the minimum 5 years taken into account?

Let's say I have 7 years of experience, would that mean I could be recruited salary-wise in P-3 and then graded Step 2 or 3 --- or does one always start in Step 1 of P2/P3/P4 regardless the experience?
Brilliant question - thanks!

Yes, typically if you start new from the outside and you have excess relevant experience, you will (or maybe I should say "might" - sometimes HR is stingy in recognising "relevant" experience - ) be placed at a higher step. In some cases this can be negotiated.

However, if at a later stage you get promoted / apply for a new job in a new grade, you typically start at Step 1 (regardless how many excess years of experience you have). So it is less likely to jump from P3 step 5 (5 years + 5 years = 10 years) to P4 step 3 (10 years - 7 years = Step 3). You would start at step 1 at the P4 level.

As usual: please take this with a grain of salt - I would very much welcome experiences from others how it is practiced across the system.
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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by John_Doe » 16 Sep 2018, 16:53

Thank you Sebastian, much appreciated. This is already helpful. :)

Anyone else who could share insight?

J.

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by NevKen » 16 Sep 2018, 17:42

John_Doe wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 16:53
Thank you Sebastian, much appreciated. This is already helpful. :)
Anyone else who could share insight? J.
In addition to what you already heard from Sebastian, I would add another side to that... that negotiating salary depends on organization to organization, department to department and project to project.
a) - organizations have a bigger budget (normally hires/sign contracts for long-term)
b) - department/country representation/coordination units comes second to that... (normally hires/signs contracts for fixed-term)
c) - projects have normally very tight budget (normally hires/sign contracts for project life-term/project phase)

Salary negotiations hence first of all depends upon the above factors/situations.
At the time a candidate get shortlisted, the total number of relevant experience is already taken into consideration (that make the candidate in the toplist after the competition).
Relevance of candidate's surplus experience is important he/she is competing here with top three or four candidates.

Given that, at the time of salary negotiation candidates compete with best counter offers (we are not talking about skills eligibility etc, that's already been determined, so no one is better than other - all candidates are the best - the top three or four)

Now is the time for cost effective option (the cheapest procurement), you can bargain but you are not alone in the game.

Another side; what an organization/department/project has to do with extra experience when that is of no value to them (no value to them means, they already have P6 P5 P4s D1-D4).

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by John_Doe » 16 Sep 2018, 19:45

NevKen wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 17:42

Given that, at the time of salary negotiation candidates compete with best counter offers (we are not talking about skills eligibility etc, that's already been determined, so no one is better than other - all candidates are the best - the top three or four)

Now is the time for cost effective option (the cheapest procurement), you can bargain but you are not alone in the game.

Another side; what an organization/department/project has to do with extra experience when that is of no value to them (no value to them means, they already have P6 P5 P4s D1-D4).
Thank you for your insight. I do believe once you are "selected" (i.e. HR approaches you as the selected candidate, Inspira says "selcted", HR wants to prepare the appointment letter,..) you would not compete with any other candidates anymore - unless I am completely mistaken.

Has anyone else further experience?

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by NevKen » 16 Sep 2018, 20:23

John_Doe wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 19:45
Thank you for your insight. I do believe once you are "selected" (i.e. HR approaches you as the selected candidate, Inspira says "selcted", HR wants to prepare the appointment letter,..) you would not compete with any other candidates anymore - unless I am completely mistaken. Has anyone else further experience?
Selected as a potential hire 'but not hired yet'. You still need to sign the contract and of course before that you need to agree to the contract terms.

What if you don't want to sign the contract, since you have been offered a better position at UN or at another organization - do you think that UNHRM have to start the whole selection thing from scratch because you were the only one and they have no-one else. Certainly no, they have the rest of top candidates (selected/roastered), then shortlisted and longlisted in queue just in case ...

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by Enigma » 16 Sep 2018, 23:22

NevKen wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 20:23
John_Doe wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 19:45
Thank you for your insight. I do believe once you are "selected" (i.e. HR approaches you as the selected candidate, Inspira says "selcted", HR wants to prepare the appointment letter,..) you would not compete with any other candidates anymore - unless I am completely mistaken. Has anyone else further experience?
Selected as a potential hire 'but not hired yet'. You still need to sign the contract and of course before that you need to agree to the contract terms.

What if you don't want to sign the contract, since you have been offered a better position at UN or at another organization - do you think that UNHRM have to start the whole selection thing from scratch because you were the only one and they have no-one else. Certainly no, they have the rest of top candidates (selected/roastered), then shortlisted and longlisted in queue just in case ...
I know but I think the poster here was talking about him being effectively the only candidate as he is the selected one. Say, you are selected as the (potential) candidate and you are basically discussing the terms. So, in this case there are no other candidates in the run, right? Of course, if the selected candidate rejects the offer, HR will go to second candidate and so on. But the question is: If I am selected, I can negotiate with them and am not competing with any other candidate since I am the "only" selected one, right? Only if I reject an offer etc. will other candidates and hence competition come into play, or am I misunderstanding something?

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by Enigma » 16 Sep 2018, 23:37

Sebastian wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 18:53
John_Doe wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 16:43
A question relating to the benefits in the P category, maybe someone can share insight: When I get first recruited into a P-3 category position, is my professional experience exceeding the minimum 5 years taken into account?

Let's say I have 7 years of experience, would that mean I could be recruited salary-wise in P-3 and then graded Step 2 or 3 --- or does one always start in Step 1 of P2/P3/P4 regardless the experience?
Brilliant question - thanks!

Yes, typically if you start new from the outside and you have excess relevant experience, you will (or maybe I should say "might" - sometimes HR is stingy in recognising "relevant" experience - ) be placed at a higher step. In some cases this can be negotiated.

However, if at a later stage you get promoted / apply for a new job in a new grade, you typically start at Step 1 (regardless how many excess years of experience you have). So it is less likely to jump from P3 step 5 (5 years + 5 years = 10 years) to P4 step 3 (10 years - 7 years = Step 3). You would start at step 1 at the P4 level.

As usual: please take this with a grain of salt - I would very much welcome experiences from others how it is practiced across the system.
Thanks. I just want to understand this. If I read and understood your post correctly (taken with a grain of salt of course, as with all UN application processes), you are basically saying this:

1. Candidate A (internal candidate) has 10 years experience (5 + 5), is in P3 Step 5. Applies for a P4 position but is placed in P4 Step 1.
2. Candidate B (external candidate) also has 10 years experience. Applies for a P4 and is placed in P4 Step 3.

If my understanding is correct, this makes no sense to me and appears unfair? Two candidates with equal number of years of experience are placed in different steps. Is there any reason to this?

You also mentioned being promoted. Is it possible to be promoted from a P position to another? E.g. from a P3 to a P4? Up to now, I assumed you can never be promoted from a P position to another and that you have to apply for it and go through the application like any other (external) candidate?

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by NevKen » 17 Sep 2018, 10:41

Enigma wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 23:22
I know but I think the poster here was talking about him being effectively the only candidate as he is the selected one. Say, you are selected as the (potential) candidate and you are basically discussing the terms. So, in this case there are no other candidates in the run, right?
Him (the poster) being effectively the only candidate as he is the selected one, does not mean at all that there are three or four other candidates thinking exactly the same (UNHRM do not roaster other candidates unless a contract is signed/vacancy is filled or if they are completely sure they want nobody else but him).
Enigma wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 23:22
Of course, if the selected candidate rejects the offer, HR will go to second candidate and so on. But the question is: If I am selected, I can negotiate with them and am not competing with any other candidate since I am the "only" selected one, right? Only if I reject an offer etc. will other candidates and hence competition come into play, or am I misunderstanding something?
Competition does not end until a contract is signed. If you are selected, you are given a priority over other candidates to negotiate first, in case you accept the offer, the vacancy is filled/competition ended.
----------------
Now if the selected candidate signs the contract thats mean salary is negotiated after dealing with/determining candidate's surplus experience, etc.. (in context to the original post and its continuation)

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Re: Salary Steps determined during initial Recruitment?

Post by Sebastian » 17 Sep 2018, 17:29

Enigma wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 23:37
Thanks. I just want to understand this. If I read and understood your post correctly (taken with a grain of salt of course, as with all UN application processes), you are basically saying this:

1. Candidate A (internal candidate) has 10 years experience (5 + 5), is in P3 Step 5. Applies for a P4 position but is placed in P4 Step 1.
2. Candidate B (external candidate) also has 10 years experience. Applies for a P4 and is placed in P4 Step 3.

If my understanding is correct, this makes no sense to me and appears unfair? Two candidates with equal number of years of experience are placed in different steps. Is there any reason to this?
I think it is important to understand that the years of experience are a "minimum" requirement, not a mathematical equation. And then, the point of looking at the experience of Candidate B is not to advantage him over internal candidates but more to allow a (flexible?) and fair entry point into the UN system. I guess the idea is to have a well working system for internal candidates that was in need to extra flexibility to allow for the addition of external talent. Think of it the other way round: if the only possible way for an external to join would be on step 1 - this would put external candidates at a considerable disadvantage...

Anyways, in the end I'm not the one that invented the rules :) (and keep in mind that I might be wrong, I'm certainly not a policy expert / lawyer :) )
You also mentioned being promoted. Is it possible to be promoted from a P position to another? E.g. from a P3 to a P4? Up to now, I assumed you can never be promoted from a P position to another and that you have to apply for it and go through the application like any other (external) candidate?
I think that's a whole other topic. In some organisations yes, there is a promotion policy. In many other organisation there is none. Happy to open a new thread for that :)
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